General Games Discussion

Re: Sony and MS may introduce motion controls at E3 - opinions?

Mechazawa005 — Wed, 13 May 2009 01:13:56 GMT

Looks like the Wall Street Journal is all over the 360's motion camera.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124215416209111679.html

Although i'm still skeptical, if they were able to implement accurate head/body tracking with games designed for use with the camera, this could be a step forward.

Example of head tracking (unrelated to above article):

(Please visit the site to view this media)

Re: Sony and MS may introduce motion contols at E3 - opinions?

cheeznrice — Wed, 06 May 2009 01:52:32 GMT

dafitzanator777:
That would be amazing, no questions asked. I would absolutly love that. In this case, it's as close to real as you can get and I don't exactly want to do the real thing .

Hire somebody to sit beside your TV and shoot paintballs at you while you're playing. No zapper or balance board needed. I'd do it for free.

Re: Sony and MS may introduce motion contols at E3 - opinions?

dafitzanator777 — Tue, 05 May 2009 22:04:12 GMT

Kenny007:

Still, if they get these motion controls down, I don't know if I'd want to play any other way. Think of combining the Wii Zapper and the Wii Fit board to make a shoot em up game that detected crouching and dodging and such? Too cool. I'd love to play any FPS with a gun in hand actually, the current problem is the movement though, not the shooting.

That would be amazing, no questions asked. I would absolutly love that. In this case, it's as close to real as you can get and I don't exactly want to do the real thing .

Re: Sony and MS may introduce motion contols at E3 - opinions?

ejamer — Tue, 05 May 2009 21:26:26 GMT

I-Weapon-X:

...to say that you havent played one since counterstrike also add even less stock to that statement and just gives more of a generalization based on past experiences...

Sorry -- that's not quite what I meant. I've played many recent console FPS titles, but rarely enjoyed them the same way I enjoy games on a PC. Halo 3 was ok, but didn't hit it for me. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare was "meh". Left 4 Dead is gorgeous but only put a point on the question: why not download it on a PC instead? The games (on 360/PS3/360, respectively) were great, but I just couldn't get into the control scheme after spending some serious time playing PC titles a while back.

Dual-analogs feel... well, I'm good enough with them to compete well enough against friends or in single-player mode, but usually get killed pretty quickly online. They aren't comfortable or natural feeling for me with this type of game. If I spent enough time playing, that would probably change. But pointing and aiming somehow clicks in my mind now though, without the learning curve, and Wii controls are a reasonable living room proxy for my preferred mouse action. (Wii FPS controls also work with my non-gaming wife... I run around using the nunchuck while she points and shoots stuff with the remote-- an absolute blast, even if it's a silly way to play and usually doesn't see us survive too long.)

As for autoaim, maybe that's an unfair generalization. But what console games don't use it at all? I thought it was built into many console FPS titles... can you really just turn it on/off, or does that just adjust the level of autoaim within the game? Yes, I'm probably a tool for making that assumption without knowing more.

PS -- Agree that MOH:Heroes 2 and Red Steel felt clumsy on Wii. Didn't try the others, so can't really comment.

Re: Sony and MS may introduce motion contols at E3 - opinions?

I-Weapon-X — Tue, 05 May 2009 21:05:13 GMT

ejamer:

Regarding FPS controls: What games have you tried, and what are you comparing them to?

After the initial learning curve, I found Wii controls better than dual-analogs but not as good as a mouse/keyboard setup. And there definitely was a learning curve -- I wouldn't be surprised if most people prefer to just play something they are already comfortable with.

I hate how dual-analog shooters rely on autoaim, but are still relatively slow and clunky. Mouse and keyboard requires the most experience to use well, but offer the best possible reaction time as a result. Wii sits in an interesting middle-ground... but seems to draw a lot of ire for not being as familiar as dual-analogs or as precise as a mouse. C'est la vie!

Edit: By the way, I'm not implying that everyone will like Wii controls - just giving an opinion. I find the closer home consoles get to offering mouse support the more I like it. Dual-analog FPS games have been dead to me ever since becoming addicted to Counter-Strike back in the day... although working on a computer for 8 hours a day means I'm less interested in playing PC games at home than I used to be.

Comparing to other consoles as well as PC; to say that console releated games rely on autoaim is hardly true as many don't and many users dont use it;to say that you havent played one since counterstrike also add even less stock to that statement and just gives more of a generalization based on past experiences

Edit: as for the wii FPS ive played: MOH: Heroes 2, Red Steel, The farcry game and COD: W@W (this one being the best but controls still feel a bit clumsy)

Re: Sony and MS may introduce motion contols at E3 - opinions?

ejamer — Tue, 05 May 2009 20:54:24 GMT

Regarding FPS controls: What games have you tried, and what are you comparing them to?

Edit: Metroid Prime 3 felt amazingly natural for me after about 20 minutes, and was a blast to play through because of the controls. I don't think any other Wii game reached the same quality (didn't play CoD:WaW) but am hoping that The Conduit will be solid. MP3 was enough of a proof of concept to sell me on the control scheme, however.

After the initial learning curve, I found Wii controls better than dual-analogs but not as good as a mouse/keyboard setup. And there definitely was a learning curve -- I wouldn't be surprised if most people prefer to just play something they are already comfortable with.

I hate how dual-analog shooters rely on autoaim, but are still relatively slow and clunky. Mouse and keyboard requires the most experience to use well, but offer the best possible reaction time as a result. Wii sits in an interesting middle-ground... but seems to draw a lot of ire for not being as familiar as dual-analogs or as precise as a mouse. C'est la vie!

Edit: By the way, I'm not implying that everyone will like Wii controls - just giving an opinion. I find the closer home consoles get to offering mouse support the more I like it. Dual-analog FPS games have been dead to me ever since becoming addicted to Counter-Strike back in the day... although working on a computer for 8 hours a day means I'm less interested in playing PC games at home than I used to be.

Re: Sony and MS may introduce motion contols at E3 - opinions?

I-Weapon-X — Tue, 05 May 2009 19:17:43 GMT

ejamer:
But pointers have a far broader appeal -- from FPS to RTS, and covering many games in between.

with the exception of the On Rails FPS, ive yet to find a FPS on wii that didn't feel clumsy

Re: Sony and MS may introduce motion contols at E3 - opinions?

ejamer — Tue, 05 May 2009 19:09:38 GMT

sterlingdax:

I-Weapon-X:

The getting motion controls down is a key point in that they feel the need to give almost everything motion controls, however tedious they may be and in this case they actually detract from the actual gameplay.

I think this is the answer...

Thirded. Motion controls have awesome potential when used right... but not when overused, or forced into games where they don't belong, or when developers do a poor job implementing them. Unfortunately, a large portion of Wii games fit into one of those three categories.

Also, I want to reiterate that a pointer control is probably more useful (for most games) than actual motion controls. Motion control only makes sense when you want to capture a range of motion, or the force associated with an action. But pointers have a far broader appeal -- from FPS to RTS, and covering many games in between.

As for being a fanboy with nerdrage who's not worth talking to, well... People can make their own call on that, and it won't hurt my feelings one way or the other.

Re: Sony and MS may introduce motion contols at E3 - opinions?

Risingred — Tue, 05 May 2009 18:17:31 GMT

I-Weapon-X:

i do not believe so; but i've never played with wiimote/nunchuck

IIRC, you can set the smash to a waggle-gesture with the wiimote. I think that was it though.

Re: Sony and MS may introduce motion contols at E3 - opinions?

I-Weapon-X — Tue, 05 May 2009 18:08:51 GMT

Kenny007:

I-Weapon-X:

this has been implemented with some games, including super smash brothers brawn and mario kart

Does SSBB use motion at all?

i do not believe so; but i've never played with wiimote/nunchuck

Re: Sony and MS may introduce motion contols at E3 - opinions?

Kenny007 — Tue, 05 May 2009 18:06:45 GMT

I-Weapon-X:

this has been implemented with some games, including super smash brothers brawn and mario kart

Does SSBB use motion at all?

Re: Sony and MS may introduce motion contols at E3 - opinions?

Risingred — Tue, 05 May 2009 17:44:09 GMT

ejamer, you're way too defensive to even talk to, man. I'm having a conversation and you're having a heated arguement. It's the Wii. Not worth it.

I will re-iterate that all I have stated is my opinion. I don't like motion controls. I don't care what you think about that or how you think I actually feel or whatever. It isn't my thing. That's hardly something I need to justify, especially to a fanboy with nerdrage.

Re: Sony and MS may introduce motion contols at E3 - opinions?

I-Weapon-X — Tue, 05 May 2009 17:39:31 GMT

cheeznrice:

sterlingdax:
That being said, I do wish there were multiple control schemes for each game, one for motion, or motion dominated, and one for couch potatoes.

That I'd love to see. Give me the option of using motion controls. If I like them I'll use them, if I don't give me the option to play the game without motion controls. Is that really a lot to ask?

this has been implemented with some games, including super smash brothers brawn and mario kart

Re: Sony and MS may introduce motion contols at E3 - opinions?

cheeznrice — Tue, 05 May 2009 17:36:32 GMT

sterlingdax:
That being said, I do wish there were multiple control schemes for each game, one for motion, or motion dominated, and one for couch potatoes.

That I'd love to see. Give me the option of using motion controls. If I like them I'll use them, if I don't give me the option to play the game without motion controls. Is that really a lot to ask?

Re: Sony and MS may introduce motion contols at E3 - opinions?

sterlingdax — Tue, 05 May 2009 17:32:39 GMT

I-Weapon-X:

The getting motion controls down is a key point in that they feel the need to give almost everything motion controls, however tedious they may be and in this case they actually detract from the actual gameplay.

I think this is the answer, I think I said it before, but it's not Nintendo's fault, the motion controls are excellent, it's the devs that feel like they have to be added. Look at the devs with the crap titles, then look at Capcom, Activision and Nintendo, who seems to have done it correctly, for the most part. This is all a learning experience for everyone involved. Of course the 2nd and 3rd in line will do it 'better', but where would they be if Nintendo hadn't of done it, AND been successful at it? The haters should hate on the devs, not the folks moving the gaming industry forward.

That being said, I do wish there were multiple control schemes for each game, one for motion, or motion dominated, and one for couch potatoes. Sometimes I feel like (looking like) a nut, sometimes I don't. Currently when I don't, I play the PS3 :D