2k forums post here http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63853
Basically, this is another example of a developer holding launch content ransom. The new Bioshock 2 DLC is not actually DLC but just an unlock code to unlock content that was shipped with the disk.
I get both sides but ultimately there is no excuse for this behavior. We as gamers trust that the developers are doing the very best job that they can and producing titles that are as entertaining as they can make them. Holding out on content changes that perception. Now they are developing titles that are "just good enough" to separate us from our cash. The rest they will just sell to us later.
Whats worse is that they already developed it and sent it out. They are just making us pay for it because they can. Its not like it costs them anything extra at this point. Their cost is the same whether I buy it or not. It would be like if a Pepsi sold you a 20 oz bottle of soda but advertised it as a 12 oz bottle. You could only drink the first 12 oz unless you sent them another 50 cents to buy the last 8 oz. Yeah, we got what they advertised for the original purchase price but it is mean spirited and dishonest. Why hold out just because you can?
Even that last point may be me being too nice to 2k since they actually advertised the "new" content before launch of the original release. In the MP trailer for Bioshock 2 you see the "new" characters (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpYbxhBrabg)
What are your thoughts?
This has been going on for some time now; kudos to them for shrinking the file size down from the previously bloated 108KB to a more manageable 24KB, though.
So it would make you feel differently if they held back the content and then forced you to put it on your hard drive instead?
How about if they charged you $80 instead and had all of the content unlocked for you, even if you didn't really care about the $20 in extras?
What exactly do you want here - them to give you $80 worth of content for $60 because that's what you feel like paying for it? Do you feel they're obligated to give you 20 oz of pepsi for a 12 oz price because they make video games rather than soft drinks?
I figure they do it to reduce bandwidth costs.
As long as suckers keep paying for it in large numbers, they'll keep doing it.
DrJ079:So it would make you feel differently if they held back the content and then forced you to put it on your hard drive instead?
Honestly?... yeah probably.
DrJ079:How about if they charged you $80 instead and had all of the content unlocked for you, even if you didn't really care about the $20 in extras?
At least it would be honest and I could decide if the game was worth the true cost. The way they have it now you really dont have the option of not buying it because they will still let you play against the people that purchased the DLC. So if you want to compete you have to buy it.
DrJ079:What exactly do you want here - them to give you $80 worth of content for $60 because that's what you feel like paying for it?
Isnt that what we all want? More for less. But really, its not $80 worth of content. Most people would leave it on the shelf if the sticker price was $80, but wont notice that they paid $80 over time $5 bucks at a time.
You cant tell me that a few extra textures are worth the extra money and that somehow the base game was worth $60 when there are games with much more contend and have had much higher development costs that sell for the same price. They are not charging more because its worth more. they charge more because they CAN.
DrJ079: So it would make you feel differently if they held back the content and then forced you to put it on your hard drive instead? How about if they charged you $80 instead and had all of the content unlocked for you, even if you didn't really care about the $20 in extras? What exactly do you want here - them to give you $80 worth of content for $60 because that's what you feel like paying for it? Do you feel they're obligated to give you 20 oz of pepsi for a 12 oz price because they make video games rather than soft drinks?
It is the fact that they already put the content on the disc and then charged you to unlock it that is the problem. If the DLC is done before the game is released and is done in time to put on the disc then why wasnt it part of the game to begin with? DLC is something that should not be in the disc and its title of Downloadable Content is a lie when the content is already there and doesnt need to be downloaded. Since the content was already on the disc I would say they gave you $60 worth of content but only let you use the last bit of the content if you paid them money to unlock that part of the disc.
Gaming as a whole developed in an environment where developers poured everything they had into a game to keep you loyal to the brand. They cut out content that detracted from the game or that simply would not fit on the disk. Now they cut out the content that adds to the game because they can sell it to you separately.
My $60 is worth your full effort. Dont second guess the process and dial it down because you feel that the final product is too good to sell at a price people are willing to pay. You sell me extra content when it is truly extra. When you decided to expand the story in a direction that is tangential to the original content. When there are new ideas and features that dont quite justify a sequal but may complement the original release. If it was integral to the launch content then I should get it for my same $60.
vmcintos:The way they have it now you really dont have the option of not buying it because they will still let you play against the people that purchased the DLC. So if you want to compete you have to buy it.
Reading up a little bit on the DLC makes me not like this move even more. I hate it when games have DLC that is for the multiplayer part of the game and having the DLC is a huge advantage over someone that doesnt have it. It isnt fair to the people not buying the DLC. DLC should never alter the competetivness of online play for a game.
killmak: DrJ079: So it would make you feel differently if they held back the content and then forced you to put it on your hard drive instead? How about if they charged you $80 instead and had all of the content unlocked for you, even if you didn't really care about the $20 in extras? What exactly do you want here - them to give you $80 worth of content for $60 because that's what you feel like paying for it? Do you feel they're obligated to give you 20 oz of pepsi for a 12 oz price because they make video games rather than soft drinks? It is the fact that they already put the content on the disc and then charged you to unlock it that is the problem. If the DLC is done before the game is released and is done in time to put on the disc then why wasnt it part of the game to begin with? DLC is something that should not be in the disc and its title of Downloadable Content is a lie when the content is already there and doesnt need to be downloaded. Since the content was already on the disc I would say they gave you $60 worth of content but only let you use the last bit of the content if you paid them money to unlock that part of the disc.
What difference does it really make when in the development process they decided to add features that weren't really integral to the game? It still required additional resources on their part to create. Seems like from a company perspective this is a logical way to do this because demand for the DLC is going to be highest near when the game is actually released.
vmcintos: DrJ079:So it would make you feel differently if they held back the content and then forced you to put it on your hard drive instead? Honestly?... yeah probably. DrJ079:How about if they charged you $80 instead and had all of the content unlocked for you, even if you didn't really care about the $20 in extras? At least it would be honest and I could decide if the game was worth the true cost. The way they have it now you really dont have the option of not buying it because they will still let you play against the people that purchased the DLC. So if you want to compete you have to buy it. DrJ079:What exactly do you want here - them to give you $80 worth of content for $60 because that's what you feel like paying for it? Isnt that what we all want? More for less. But really, its not $80 worth of content. Most people would leave it on the shelf if the sticker price was $80, but wont notice that they paid $80 over time $5 bucks at a time. You cant tell me that a few extra textures are worth the extra money and that somehow the base game was worth $60 when there are games with much more contend and have had much higher development costs that sell for the same price. They are not charging more because its worth more. they charge more because they CAN.
Who really cares what the development costs of the game are? Do you feel you got more out of your money by seeing a crappy movie that they dumped hundreds of millions into horrible special effects and has a terrible story, or would you rather see a lower budget film that is actually good? Based on reviews, it seems like what they gave you for $60 is a better product than what most give you for that $60.
They're in business to make money. I really don't see how this being on the disc does anything to make what they gave you for $60 worth less but if you feel that way you're welcome to not buy it. They're under no obligation to give you everything they've developed for the title at that price, no matter when it was developed.
DrJ079:What difference does it really make when in the development process they decided to add features that weren't really integral to the game? It still required additional resources on their part to create. Seems like from a company perspective this is a logical way to do this because demand for the DLC is going to be highest near when the game is actually released.
Add-ons that are developed in time for print should be included, charging extra is just gauging. How long does it take to add new character ranks, add skins, plasmids and weapon upgrades that already exist in single player mode? These are not significant additions to the game nor did they incur ANY additional development resources. Its BS that they would justify charging for it at all but ESPECIALLY since it was already on the disk!
vmcintos: DrJ079:What difference does it really make when in the development process they decided to add features that weren't really integral to the game? It still required additional resources on their part to create. Seems like from a company perspective this is a logical way to do this because demand for the DLC is going to be highest near when the game is actually released. Add-ons that are developed in time for print should be included, charging extra is just gauging. How long does it take to add new character ranks, add skins, plasmids and weapon upgrades that already exist in single player mode? These are not significant additions to the game nor did they incur ANY additional development resources. Its BS that they would justify charging for it at all but ESPECIALLY since it was already on the disk!
Great, so when Bioshock 3 rolls out you'll be willing to add all of these in for them for free, correct?
DrJ079: vmcintos: DrJ079:What difference does it really make when in the development process they decided to add features that weren't really integral to the game? It still required additional resources on their part to create. Seems like from a company perspective this is a logical way to do this because demand for the DLC is going to be highest near when the game is actually released. Add-ons that are developed in time for print should be included, charging extra is just gauging. How long does it take to add new character ranks, add skins, plasmids and weapon upgrades that already exist in single player mode? These are not significant additions to the game nor did they incur ANY additional development resources. Its BS that they would justify charging for it at all but ESPECIALLY since it was already on the disk! Great, so when Bioshock 3 rolls out you'll be willing to add all of these in for them for free, correct?
Free? They made it during development thus have already been paid for it.
DrJ079:Do you feel you got more out of your money by seeing a crappy movie that they dumped hundreds of millions into horrible special effects and has a terrible story, or would you rather see a lower budget film that is actually good?
I'm only paying 7 for either so I dont see your point. I'll have words with the theater if they charge me to see the really good scenes though.
DrJ079:Based on reviews, it seems like what they gave you for $60 is a better product than what most give you for that $60.
Depends on the review. Many feel (i dont) that the whole game was not sufficiently different from the original Bioshock to justify the price, but thats another discussion.
DrJ079:They're under no obligation to give you everything they've developed for the title at that price, no matter when it was developed.
They didnt even develope anything extra. Its like if you purchased a car and it would only let you drive on the streets. Interstate driving costs you extra. What did the car company do to deserve the extra money? NOTHING, the car is already capable of driving on the interstate they just crippled it to make you pay them to fix it. The additions for this DLC are not new. They are already included in the single player mode. They WERE already included in multiplayer before launch as evidenced by the MP trailers. they made a last minute decision to nerf the game so that they could charge to fix it.
If there were entirely new features then I wouldnt complain. I didnt complain about the RE5 DLC that unlocked MP mode that was already on the disk. I thought it was an evil move, but well played...I bought it. It was something that was ENTIRELY different. it was a whole new game mechanic with features that didnt exist anywhere in the original content. Sure...I'll pay for that even if it IS already on the disk.