A bachelors degree in today's society is overrated. Employers are just looking for work experience. I got my bachelors last spring, and I'm still unable to find a job. I've gotten a couple of interviews, but they are all looking for people with experience (like 5 or more years). Luckily I had a lot of money saved over from working at my previous job, but that money is now almost depleted. I need to find a job real soon or its back with the parents!
cthomasygo: A bachelors degree in today's society is overrated. Employers are just looking for work experience. I got my bachelors last spring, and I'm still unable to find a job. I've gotten a couple of interviews, but they are all looking for people with experience (like 5 or more years). Luckily I had a lot of money saved over from working at my previous job, but that money is now almost depleted. I need to find a job real soon or its back with the parents!
A bachelor's degree is only overrated if you have one. I promise you that if you have five years of work experience and no degree, your chances of getting any job over someone with a degree and even a single year of experience are virtually nil. The degree is the groundwork, the experience the extra advantage.
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taintedzodiac: cthomasygo: A bachelors degree in today's society is overrated. Employers are just looking for work experience. I got my bachelors last spring, and I'm still unable to find a job. I've gotten a couple of interviews, but they are all looking for people with experience (like 5 or more years). Luckily I had a lot of money saved over from working at my previous job, but that money is now almost depleted. I need to find a job real soon or its back with the parents! A bachelor's degree is only overrated if you have one. I promise you that if you have five years of work experience and no degree, your chances of getting any job over someone with a degree and even a single year of experience are virtually nil. The degree is the groundwork, the experience the extra advantage.
True...unless you know someone, pointing back to my earlier suggestion. I only had work experience to offer this company, and to be honest, it was only a mere few years on paper plus years of doing tech work for friends, family, and myself. Nevertheless, I got the job ahead of others that were in the biz for 10-20 years, had fancy degrees and titles, etc. Honestly, I'll never know exactly why I made it out over these guys, but I have two theories. One, the vouch goes a LONG way. Two, I'm young and relatively new to the field, so I'm a cheaper hire. Guys with 10-20 years in the biz want and demand larger paychecks. I'll just work my way up. (Though had I known they'd be practically begging for me, I'd of asked for a lot more to start...hindsight is 20/20 and all that...)
My friend with the English degree is running into the same hurdles. Has the degree but needs work experience to get in the door, needs the degree to get the experience, needs the experience to get in the door...can't get in the door. Meanwhile I just hopped from job to job and landed a possible career, with college relatively only dusting my resume. I always had high grades but I don't think they have the leverage the school system would have liked me to believe. I got where I am through networking, albeit almost entirely effortless and circumstantial.
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It all depends on the line of work. I personally think all the letters I have after my name thanks to certs is far more valuable than finishing college would have been. And I can 100% guarantee that a guy with a degree and a year of experience isn't getting my job. In fact, I'm so certain of this that I'm pushing my employer to give me a raise, or else I'll probably be leaving soon.
Kenny007: taintedzodiac: cthomasygo: A bachelors degree in today's society is overrated. Employers are just looking for work experience. I got my bachelors last spring, and I'm still unable to find a job. I've gotten a couple of interviews, but they are all looking for people with experience (like 5 or more years). Luckily I had a lot of money saved over from working at my previous job, but that money is now almost depleted. I need to find a job real soon or its back with the parents! A bachelor's degree is only overrated if you have one. I promise you that if you have five years of work experience and no degree, your chances of getting any job over someone with a degree and even a single year of experience are virtually nil. The degree is the groundwork, the experience the extra advantage. True...unless you know someone, pointing back to my earlier suggestion. I only had work experience to offer this company, and to be honest, it was only a mere few years on paper plus years of doing tech work for friends, family, and myself. Nevertheless, I got the job ahead of others that were in the biz for 10-20 years, had fancy degrees and titles, etc. Honestly, I'll never know exactly why I made it out over these guys, but I have two theories. One, the vouch goes a LONG way. Two, I'm young and relatively new to the field, so I'm a cheaper hire. Guys with 10-20 years in the biz want and demand larger paychecks. I'll just work my way up. (Though had I known they'd be practically begging for me, I'd of asked for a lot more to start...hindsight is 20/20 and all that...) My friend with the English degree is running into the same hurdles. Has the degree but needs work experience to get in the door, needs the degree to get the experience, needs the experience to get in the door...can't get in the door. Meanwhile I just hopped from job to job and landed a possible career, with college relatively only dusting my resume. I always had high grades but I don't think they have the leverage the school system would have liked me to believe. I got where I am through networking, albeit almost entirely effortless and circumstantial.
The big thing here is that a degree isn't worth a heck of a lot in the IT world. You would have been able to do the same without networking or college, it might have just taken a little more effort. My first job in IT I got by explaining how I worked on my own PC and had networking experience thanks to playing Doom with my friends. 10 months later I had an MCSE and was quitting that job for a substantial pay increase. Here we are 10 years later and I make 5 times as much and am telling my boss that he needs to pay me more or I'm updating my resume. And I'm fairly certain that even in this economy someone will give it to me if they won't. :)
I finished my Masters in accounting this past summer, and I'm still working at the same job when I started my program with no pay increase (pay cut actually) and $25,000 in student loans....
At this time, I regret having finished my Masters degree.
DrJ079:The big thing here is that a degree isn't worth a heck of a lot in the IT world. You would have been able to do the same without networking or college, it might have just taken a little more effort. My first job in IT I got by explaining how I worked on my own PC and had networking experience thanks to playing Doom with my friends. 10 months later I had an MCSE and was quitting that job for a substantial pay increase. Here we are 10 years later and I make 5 times as much and am telling my boss that he needs to pay me more or I'm updating my resume. And I'm fairly certain that even in this economy someone will give it to me if they won't. :)
Sound advice. Currently I don't have anything fancy at the end of my name, though I've been considering going through some of those certs; both to help my marketability look better on paper than just "Yea, I can do that", and to be a bit more knowledgable here in my current job...I've still got a lot to learn, and I hate not having the answer to things.
Getting this job wasn't that hard, I just told them what I did at my current tech job (ran the place essentially), and they asked me a hypothetical question about spyware removal. Apparently I wow'd one of the programmers that had been here 20+ years. Funny as I wasn't even trying, for at the time I wasn't even interested in the job remotely. Somehow....I still ended up here...lol.
Kenny007: DrJ079:The big thing here is that a degree isn't worth a heck of a lot in the IT world. You would have been able to do the same without networking or college, it might have just taken a little more effort. My first job in IT I got by explaining how I worked on my own PC and had networking experience thanks to playing Doom with my friends. 10 months later I had an MCSE and was quitting that job for a substantial pay increase. Here we are 10 years later and I make 5 times as much and am telling my boss that he needs to pay me more or I'm updating my resume. And I'm fairly certain that even in this economy someone will give it to me if they won't. :) Sound advice. Currently I don't have anything fancy at the end of my name, though I've been considering going through some of those certs; both to help my marketability look better on paper than just "Yea, I can do that", and to be a bit more knowledgable here in my current job...I've still got a lot to learn, and I hate not having the answer to things. Getting this job wasn't that hard, I just told them what I did at my current tech job (ran the place essentially), and they asked me a hypothetical question about spyware removal. Apparently I wow'd one of the programmers that had been here 20+ years. Funny as I wasn't even trying, for at the time I wasn't even interested in the job remotely. Somehow....I still ended up here...lol.
I've been complacent and haven't added anything in about 4 years but have the following: MCSE, SCSA (Solaris), SCNA (Solaris), HP-CSA (HP-UX), CCNA (Cisco), and RHCT (Redhat).
To me, that's the IT equivalent of a college degree and I can confidently say that no one is taking my job with a college degree and 1 year of experience. Plus I was able to do all of this without classes, on my own schedule, and at a fraction of what college would cost.
I actually bought a box to throw together an Oracle install a couple months ago to try and get some general DBA skills on top of this stuff, but haven't had time to get far with that one. You start to run out of time for this stuff when you get kids and all.
In this field it's really not that important to know everything. It's not even possible. You need to be able to show that you are willing and can learn things faster than anyone else since things typically do change pretty quickly. That might be part of why they preferred you over older guys with more experience - sounds to me like you're hungry, and a lot of guys start to think they know everything and don't have that same willingness. Plus, they want a heck of a lot more money too.
kwaz28: cthomasygo: A bachelors degree in today's society is overrated. Employers are just looking for work experience. I got my bachelors last spring, and I'm still unable to find a job. I've gotten a couple of interviews, but they are all looking for people with experience (like 5 or more years). Luckily I had a lot of money saved over from working at my previous job, but that money is now almost depleted. I need to find a job real soon or its back with the parents! I finished my Masters in accounting this past summer, and I'm still working at the same job when I started my program with no pay increase (pay cut actually) and $25,000 in student loans.... At this time, I regret having finished my Masters degree.
Isn't there some special accounting certification that can get you big bucks? Either way, don't concern yourself too much. I'm sure it'll pay dividends long term, and employers are going to have a rude wake up call coming when this market turns and it's an employee's market again. There's going to be a whole lot of people telling their employers to f off for the way they've been treated these last couple of years. Times like these really help reinforce that company loyalty is for idiots because when times get tough they'll treat you just like any other number.
DrJ079: kwaz28: cthomasygo: A bachelors degree in today's society is overrated. Employers are just looking for work experience. I got my bachelors last spring, and I'm still unable to find a job. I've gotten a couple of interviews, but they are all looking for people with experience (like 5 or more years). Luckily I had a lot of money saved over from working at my previous job, but that money is now almost depleted. I need to find a job real soon or its back with the parents! I finished my Masters in accounting this past summer, and I'm still working at the same job when I started my program with no pay increase (pay cut actually) and $25,000 in student loans.... At this time, I regret having finished my Masters degree. Isn't there some special accounting certification that can get you big bucks? Either way, don't concern yourself too much. I'm sure it'll pay dividends long term, and employers are going to have a rude wake up call coming when this market turns and it's an employee's market again. There's going to be a whole lot of people telling their employers to f off for the way they've been treated these last couple of years. Times like these really help reinforce that company loyalty is for idiots because when times get tough they'll treat you just like any other number.
You're probably talking about the CPA designation - I'm now eligible to sit for the CPA exam, but it's a beast and I don't feel my Masters has adequately prepared me for an exam of this magnitude.
In any case, I'm banking on the job market changing to the degree where employees are in control again. I'm feeling very trapped where I work now, and I have no chance to go elsewhere at this time. Meanwhile, my productivity is at an all-time low and my motivation is dwindling on a daily basis.
I second your notion regarding company loyalty... don't fall for the company line, because when the going gets tough, the executives will watch out for themselves first...
I work for a small-ish company (~200 employees), and essentially took a pay cut this year (same pay, more hours per week) while management continued to give themselves their full salary along with a bonus.
Haha, I know how you feel.
I started off in 3D animation and now I've returned to school due to the recession and I'm entering Linguistics since I pretty much taught myself Japanese over the years. It's weird yes, and I do already have some loans out, but in the end I think it's a great decision for me and I'm really excited about it. I think high school students should be forced to take liberal arts for the first couple of years out of high school until they've truly decided on a major because what I thought was my dream job at 18 definitely didn't hold true when I got older. My tastes and interests changed drastically and I know I'm aiming for the right goal now. I wish you luck in your new endeavor and I think it's a great idea and you should totally go for it. :D
ArQuesta: Haha, I know how you feel. I started off in 3D animation and now I've returned to school due to the recession and I'm entering Linguistics since I pretty much taught myself Japanese over the years. It's weird yes, and I do already have some loans out, but in the end I think it's a great decision for me and I'm really excited about it. I think high school students should be forced to take liberal arts for the first couple of years out of high school until they've truly decided on a major because what I thought was my dream job at 18 definitely didn't hold true when I got older. My tastes and interests changed drastically and I know I'm aiming for the right goal now. I wish you luck in your new endeavor and I think it's a great idea and you should totally go for it. :D
Requiring students to take liberal arts for a couple years out of HS would be absolutely ridiculous. Our school system already wastes enough time on stuff that a good portion of the population has no use for and won't make them any more productive. What we need is a return to the days when your HS had an auto shop, a welding shop, a wood shop, and taught useful skills you could go right out into the workforce and use. Contrary to popular opinion, the majority of people really don't need college degrees and treating HS like it's merely intended for college prep is a tremendous waste of resources and does a disservice to those people. It's almost as if this system is designed to keep people out of the workforce as long as they possibly can.
DrJ079: ArQuesta: Haha, I know how you feel. I started off in 3D animation and now I've returned to school due to the recession and I'm entering Linguistics since I pretty much taught myself Japanese over the years. It's weird yes, and I do already have some loans out, but in the end I think it's a great decision for me and I'm really excited about it. I think high school students should be forced to take liberal arts for the first couple of years out of high school until they've truly decided on a major because what I thought was my dream job at 18 definitely didn't hold true when I got older. My tastes and interests changed drastically and I know I'm aiming for the right goal now. I wish you luck in your new endeavor and I think it's a great idea and you should totally go for it. :D Requiring students to take liberal arts for a couple years out of HS would be absolutely ridiculous. Our school system already wastes enough time on stuff that a good portion of the population has no use for and won't make them any more productive. What we need is a return to the days when your HS had an auto shop, a welding shop, a wood shop, and taught useful skills you could go right out into the workforce and use. Contrary to popular opinion, the majority of people really don't need college degrees and treating HS like it's merely intended for college prep is a tremendous waste of resources and does a disservice to those people. It's almost as if this system is designed to keep people out of the workforce as long as they possibly can.
Here, here. All of the people I call friends that make over $50k a year have nothing beyond a high school diploma. They all have real skills that people need.
The ones I don't call friends but know are the ones that think their diploma somehow makes them better people.
Just to throw my two cents in...
To those of you still in school...complete at least one internship before you graduate. I know its tough for people to find jobs out there, so an internship may be even tougher to find. Just plan on working for free. Then, once you graduate, you'll have that bit of work experience which will make you that much more attractive to employers. The internship I had the summer before my senior year ended up as a part time job my entire senior year of school. Plus I could have stayed upon graduating but I was moving to a different city. That work experience certainly helped me get my first job post college though.
And regarding "its who you know"...its certainly true that who you know helps open doors. But once those doors are open, it's all about what you know and your work ethic. Especially in this job market. Don't rely on "who you know" to hold a steady job.
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Kenny007: I definitely concur with this. While I was top shit at accounting, I couldn't see myself doing that day in and day out for 40+ years, and that conclusion aided my stepping out of the educational system when push came to shove.
Interesting, I was working on a degree in computer information systems when I got a job and quit with school. I had a two year degree, but wanted to work for a bit before going on to 4-6 years. My job landed me in the corporate tax department as an assistant and I find myself thinking, this accounting stuff isn't too terrible (even though I had no prior experience; it helps to be good with Excel!)..maybe I should go back and give that a shot. Seems to be easier to find a job in that field than in IT (in my area).
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