timpysan: This reminds me of the time that I was working dispatch and John Travolta hijacked one of the trains. And then my wife had the nerve to ask me to bring home milk.
This reminds me of the time that I was working dispatch and John Travolta hijacked one of the trains. And then my wife had the nerve to ask me to bring home milk.
Don't you just hate it when that happens.
killmak: Hexpane: They did the *most* possible. Look at the footage, no human would have been able to jump down, pick her up, place her back on the platform, and jump back up themselves in less than 1 second. Well looking it took 20 seconds for the train to get there. Probably not the safest idea to jump down there and save her but some people cant just watch like that as someone gets run over.
Hexpane: They did the *most* possible. Look at the footage, no human would have been able to jump down, pick her up, place her back on the platform, and jump back up themselves in less than 1 second.
They did the *most* possible. Look at the footage, no human would have been able to jump down, pick her up, place her back on the platform, and jump back up themselves in less than 1 second.
Well looking it took 20 seconds for the train to get there. Probably not the safest idea to jump down there and save her but some people cant just watch like that as someone gets run over.
Well I'm having a hard time judging the train speed and such, I'm going on my experiences on the T, although most of mine were on the Red and Green lines. Green lines are those old trolleys, red lines, the train comes in the station really fast for 90% of the stops. and when you are closer to the entrance it looks even faster than it is.
Also how far down, and the configuration changes depending on the station. So at the JFK station, if you fell on the tracks, you could simply crawl to the side as it's an open air station and not get run over.
I've only been on the orange line 20 or some times in my life so I can't quite say how it compares... but I'm still going to go with the "good call" on this one for waving the train to stop instead of jumping down.
It's kind of like lifeguard training and first aid training. I used to be a LG back in the day.. and you still read stories every day about LGs dying while trying to save someone. and both ending up dead, or both needing rescues.
It's a judgment call, but the first thing you learn is to try and rescue the victim WITHOUT putting yourself in the same situation. So for instance in a pool, it's better to hook someone out of the water before you jump in.
In the ocean, they use SeaDoos or surfboards first, they don't just swim out in only a suit.
I don't know what safety procedures and rescue procedures the MBTA has, but it makes sense to me that having the train stop is first priority
That being said, when I was a LG I did have to jump into the pool once to get someone out, but only because the other LG PHAILED epically trying to use the hook and the ring (she did not unwrap the ropes before throwing, she was young and inexperienced)
I can't see if that lady touched the 3rd rail or not, but I thought I read the 3rd rail is not always "hot" but it's hard to tell if it is or not.... Basically rolling the dice?
Hexpane:I can't see if that lady touched the 3rd rail or not, but I thought I read the 3rd rail is not always "hot" but it's hard to tell if it is or not.... Basically rolling the dice?
I think the conductor can turn the third rail off if they choose. Wow that was a long response, but basically yes if someone there decided to try to jump down and save her they would be rolling the dice. They would only have a split second to judge the situation before they acted.
There are people out there that will risk their own life to save someone else though even if the odds are not good. When my wife was younger one of her friends tried to climb between train cars while the train was moving at a railway crossing. Another kid pulled him away just in time to save him from getting sliced in half but in the process he lost his legs saving his friend. So yes there are a few people out there that dont care about risks while trying to save someone else. You never know if you are one of those people until you are put in the situation, and frankly I am not sure if it is a good thing or not to be one of those people.
killmak: I think the conductor can turn the third rail off if they choose. Wow that was a long response, but basically yes if someone there decided to try to jump down and save her they would be rolling the dice. They would only have a split second to judge the situation before they acted. There are people out there that will risk their own life to save someone else though even if the odds are not good. When my wife was younger one of her friends tried to climb between train cars while the train was moving at a railway crossing. Another kid pulled him away just in time to save him from getting sliced in half but in the process he lost his legs saving his friend. So yes there are a few people out there that dont care about risks while trying to save someone else. You never know if you are one of those people until you are put in the situation, and frankly I am not sure if it is a good thing or not to be one of those people.
I'm not saying there is no risk, or taking the no risk approach is the only way to help people. I'm saying that First Aid/Lifeguard etc... all the "professional" training for life saving/ disaster etc... is based on risk assessment.
Usually the trainings err on the side of caution, not out of cowardice, but because the goal is to help someone and reduce loss of life. So the whole downed power line scenario. The first thing to do is check the area, assess it, is it safe? Is the power line hot? is there water etc...
The whole DRABC ... Danger, Response, Airway, Breathing, Circulation.
So in the case of the lady on the train tracks, I can't say what the "danger" level was. But obviously the "response" worked out for the best. The guy had the train conductor stop. If he had not done that, they might both be dead.
So from a professional rescue point of view, they dont want anyone to die, but the level of danger is always assessed first, and if it is not done properly, at the right levels, usually tragic events follow.
I hate to bring up 911, but a lot of NYFD heroes died because the danger assessment was not done properly at the command level. Those guys are heroes, but if the command had properly assessed the danger and not sent them rushing in, they'd still be alive. And no one was saved.
In fact most of the stories about people being saved from the towers turned out to be hoaxes by mentally disturbed people looking for attention. I can't remember that one lady, but for a good year she was out on tours and such. She eventually got caught in her victim/hero lies.
Lets go back to the MBTA scenario. Imagine the guy did not wave the conductor to stop. Instead he jumps down, the conductor does not see either of them, he slips on a greasy covered metal rail, hits his head, goes unconscious, both victims die. He is still a hero, but at the cost of 2 lives...
What he did worked, and saved a life. I find it very hard to criticize him for that, and I was really shocked someone did.
It's never black and white, and danger assessment is one of the hardest things to do under pressure. One of the reasons I left life guarding was the stress (and horrible pay). I can't imagine how much more stressful it is for LGs on surf beaches and such.
Anyhoot the point of the story is this guy saved that lady's life. I was just a little surprised that someone thought he "could have done more" or "should have done it differently". IMO it looked like he did a proper danger assessment and chose the fastest and safest possible path to help the victim.
It was the core of our LG training. For instance how to hold a victim while in the water was based around protecting yourself. People in water often panic, and punch, scratch or kick by accident, so you approach from the back if you can. A lot of victims will otherwise try to latch onto your neck and shoulders, preventing good swimming technique.
The teachers always mentioned, if the LG can't swim because the victim is bear hugging them, they both drown. Wost case result.
Again from that video I can't really determine exactly what is what, i just know that at MBTA stations, that pit down
Hexpane: Lets go back to the MBTA scenario. Imagine the guy did not wave the conductor to stop. Instead he jumps down, the conductor does not see either of them, he slips on a greasy covered metal rail, hits his head, goes unconscious, both victims die. He is still a hero, but at the cost of 2 lives... What he did worked, and saved a life. I find it very hard to criticize him for that, and I was really shocked someone did. It's never black and white, and danger assessment is one of the hardest things to do under pressure. One of the reasons I left life guarding was the stress (and horrible pay). I can't imagine how much more stressful it is for LGs on surf beaches and such. Anyhoot the point of the story is this guy saved that lady's life. I was just a little surprised that someone thought he "could have done more" or "should have done it differently". IMO it looked like he did a proper danger assessment and chose the fastest and safest possible path to help the victim.
Yes him and the other people that were waiving for the train to stop did save her life. By a couple of inches. If the train stopped a foot or two further forward the girl would be dead which is the point I was making. If that happened then we wouldnt all be saying he tried his best or they are all heroes for trying, I know I at least would be wondering if someone could have done more.