Mechazawa005: WPNofCHOICE: batmania15: cheeznrice: I really don't see why people are getting bent out of shape. This is purely fiction. If you can't distinguish fiction from reality than that's a different issue. One word: Scapegoat Another good point here. I guarantee if this was portrayed in a movie or book, no one would be whining, but it's a game (or as Jack Thompson likes to call them "Murder Simulators") so that makes it different. Not alot of people considered that maybe the Columbine shootings were the result of emotional trauma caused by humiliation from their classmates. They were too busy blaming it on DOOM. I think any rational human being came to the same conclusion. Columbine was a tragedy without question, but the idiots who place the blame directly on video games either: a) Find it's a more convenient excuse than placing blame on surroundings/societal problems/those closest to the person/improperly controlled mental health disorder; b) Are using it to further their personal or political agendas; or c) All of the above I'm sure Jack Thompson or those individuals cut from a similar cloth will take full advantage of any controversial content in MW2 (or any other game) if the situation suits them. This kind of scapegoating has been going on for as long as I can remember. Early on Jazz and then Rock music were both branded as devil music. Role-playing games like D&D came under attack for separating people from reality. Hip-hop was blamed for societal issues. Marilyn Manson scapegoat du jour at the height of his career. Video games have been on-again off-again blamed for society's woes for the better part of 20 years now. You'd think people would wise up and start pointing the finger at themselves instead of at anything convenient that crosses their path, but that's unlikely to ever happen. Too much to be gained by crusading against that which is perceived as detrimental or evil without stopping to question motives. /rant off On topic: I watched the Youtube video for the level in questions. Gut-wrenching isn't a bad way to describe it, but I think that's what IW was shooting for: something that would be questionable in the player's mind and something they would remember. Tomorrow can't come soon enough...
WPNofCHOICE: batmania15: cheeznrice: I really don't see why people are getting bent out of shape. This is purely fiction. If you can't distinguish fiction from reality than that's a different issue. One word: Scapegoat Another good point here. I guarantee if this was portrayed in a movie or book, no one would be whining, but it's a game (or as Jack Thompson likes to call them "Murder Simulators") so that makes it different. Not alot of people considered that maybe the Columbine shootings were the result of emotional trauma caused by humiliation from their classmates. They were too busy blaming it on DOOM.
batmania15: cheeznrice: I really don't see why people are getting bent out of shape. This is purely fiction. If you can't distinguish fiction from reality than that's a different issue. One word: Scapegoat
cheeznrice: I really don't see why people are getting bent out of shape. This is purely fiction. If you can't distinguish fiction from reality than that's a different issue.
I really don't see why people are getting bent out of shape. This is purely fiction. If you can't distinguish fiction from reality than that's a different issue.
One word: Scapegoat
Another good point here. I guarantee if this was portrayed in a movie or book, no one would be whining, but it's a game (or as Jack Thompson likes to call them "Murder Simulators") so that makes it different. Not alot of people considered that maybe the Columbine shootings were the result of emotional trauma caused by humiliation from their classmates. They were too busy blaming it on DOOM.
I think any rational human being came to the same conclusion. Columbine was a tragedy without question, but the idiots who place the blame directly on video games either:
a) Find it's a more convenient excuse than placing blame on surroundings/societal problems/those closest to the person/improperly controlled mental health disorder;
b) Are using it to further their personal or political agendas; or
c) All of the above
I'm sure Jack Thompson or those individuals cut from a similar cloth will take full advantage of any controversial content in MW2 (or any other game) if the situation suits them. This kind of scapegoating has been going on for as long as I can remember.
Early on Jazz and then Rock music were both branded as devil music. Role-playing games like D&D came under attack for separating people from reality. Hip-hop was blamed for societal issues. Marilyn Manson scapegoat du jour at the height of his career. Video games have been on-again off-again blamed for society's woes for the better part of 20 years now.
You'd think people would wise up and start pointing the finger at themselves instead of at anything convenient that crosses their path, but that's unlikely to ever happen. Too much to be gained by crusading against that which is perceived as detrimental or evil without stopping to question motives.
/rant off
On topic: I watched the Youtube video for the level in questions. Gut-wrenching isn't a bad way to describe it, but I think that's what IW was shooting for: something that would be questionable in the player's mind and something they would remember.
Tomorrow can't come soon enough...
This sums up my thoughts on Jack Thompson and friends entirely. I'm glad he's disbarred. I saw a short comment on the video that I agreed strongly with. Infinity Ward wants you to feel uncomfortable and reluctant to kill the people, but again, it is just a game. An awesome one at that.
it certainly didn't help that one of the murderers directly says "that shotgun is straig out of effing DOOM"
don't think this has been brought up in this discussion, but that mission isn't really too new.
If anyone watches the tv show 24, there was a similar situation a few seasons back where Russian terrorists took over a bus terminal(I think, maybe airport) and broadcast on national TV as they killed hostages.
I-Weapon-X:it certainly didn't help that one of the murderers directly says "that shotgun is straig out of effing DOOM"
But who needs gun control laws...
Splinter Cell: Double Agent Spoiler Alert:
I agree with you guys. I love games that really get me to invest in the game, be it the characters, the setting, the choices, etc. Mass Effect was great for that in one of the last missions. Same with SC:DA very early in the game when you need to convince your employers by killing a hostage (or not). I never got that far into SC:DA but I intend to, so I'm interested to see just how far Sam Fisher goes with his undercover role.
As for MW2, I intend to skip it for now until I can finish CoD4's story.
Foltzie: don't think this has been brought up in this discussion, but that mission isn't really too new. If anyone watches the tv show 24, there was a similar situation a few seasons back where Russian terrorists took over a bus terminal(I think, maybe airport) and broadcast on national TV as they killed hostages.
IW is ripping of Fox?
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I'm not really sure that it's a spoiler as information about this level has been plastered all over the news for a week or two.
I love the 'murder simulators' argument. I wrote a report on the matter in college, and one opponent to violence in video games, an Army colonel, noted one particular shooting in which a teen 'scored' 8 headshots in a matter of 8-10 rounds, further noting that none of the men under his control could possibly replicate the event, and that this was all because of countless hours of training on counterstrike, doom, etc.
Let's not forget that he was speaking on behalf of his own unit, which just so happened to be the Special Forces....the SPECIAL FORCES. The badass of the US. Suggesting that they couldn't match some kid who both got lucky and used the element of surprise is laughable. And of course no game provides any tangible benefits in firearm use; weapon size and weight, recoil, and all sorts of accuracy concerns fade away with a crosshair and mouse/joystick.
Man, anti videogamers are idiots.
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Kenny007: I'm not really sure that it's a spoiler as information about this level has been plastered all over the news for a week or two.
Some people still choose to avoid reading the stories. Though I have seen it on many different sites, I avoided it until I read this thread just minutes ago. That was the first I had actually read regarding this level.
And for what it's worth.....I'm totally playing this level
True, it has been done in other mediums (TV and movies, but not in games) but an interactive game with the same content is held to different standards. A tastefully (or not so tastefully) done sex scene in a R rated film is perfectly acceptable...try getting away with that in a video game. Ask Indigo Prophecy and GTA:SA's devs how that went a few years ago.
Then again (at least in American culture) we tend to find violent content more acceptable in a video game than sexual content. Go figure...
The whole thing about MW2 opening scene creating any sort controversy will be forgotten in a very short time.
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Mechazawa005: Foltzie: don't think this has been brought up in this discussion, but that mission isn't really too new. If anyone watches the tv show 24, there was a similar situation a few seasons back where Russian terrorists took over a bus terminal(I think, maybe airport) and broadcast on national TV as they killed hostages. True, it has been done in other mediums (TV and movies, but not in games) but an interactive game with the same content is held to different standards. A tastefully (or not so tastefully) done sex scene in a R rated film is perfectly acceptable...try getting away with that in a video game. Ask Indigo Prophecy and GTA:SA's devs how that went a few years ago. Then again (at least in American culture) we tend to find violent content more acceptable in a video game than sexual content. Go figure... The whole thing about MW2 opening scene creating any sort controversy will be forgotten in a very short time.
Until some juvenile goes and does something stupid and blames it on MW2......
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batmania15: Mechazawa005: The whole thing about MW2 opening scene creating any sort controversy will be forgotten in a very short time. Until some juvenile goes and does something stupid and blames it on MW2......
Mechazawa005: The whole thing about MW2 opening scene creating any sort controversy will be forgotten in a very short time.
The possibility does exist if a real world event were to occur.
In my mind, there's nothing in the MW2 opening that people have not seen before. It was meant to stir a little controversy and make people uncomfortable - both are great for sales. If history is any indicator, we'll move on to the next "big potential controversy" in gaming in about 1-3 months. I just hope an idiot doesn't do anything stupid to give someone a soapbox in the meantime.
eaglefan: Hey your not the only one who is goin to buy it, of corse i will wait a while before i buy it, when the first MW came out there were fights at my local GS. But not major fights, just people trying to take it out of other peoples hands.
Hey your not the only one who is goin to buy it, of corse i will wait a while before i buy it, when the first MW came out there were fights at my local GS. But not major fights, just people trying to take it out of other peoples hands.
This is the reason I will be picking MW2 up after work on the 10th, instead of lining up.
I went to the midnight launch at my local Walmart. Got there about 45 after and there were about 60 people waiting in line. I have never seen so many Wangsters in one place in my life. At 12:01 the people in the front were yelling to start selling it, they were threatened with the game not being sold until 12:30. They started bitching about how they can't do that as they have been waiting in line since 7, the response from the cashier was "I don't care as it is not my fault you decided to waste your time waiting in line for that long." I just started laughing. Not sure if the 45 minutes of waiting in line was worth the 4 hours of sleep I got this morning. I can't see them putting out more maps for this game due to the shear size of each map. Take Bloc and increase the size x3, and you have a rough idea of the size of almost each map, at least the ones I played. 32 player would be great for this game just due to the massive size of each map. Seeing how it is only up to 18 players, ground war, or what ever it is called in this version, should be main game type to be played.
So I avoided watching or reading about this scene as much as possible and went into the game today and played that level.
I really didn't think that it would affect me like it did. All I could think about while playing was watching the security cameras from Columbine. There was just something about seeing all those innocent unarmed people begging for their lives as the were mowed down just really made me feel sick...
Never thought that this would get to me, but man it did.
Still, this is an awesome game that I just sunk my evening into.
i had so much fun plowing down the innocents lol, my favorite mission :)
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Rip82: Being an avid gamer and one who defends everyone's right to play them, I have to say I found this portion of the game very disturbing. There has to be a point where they draw the line and with everything that is happening today in the news, this should have been left out. The game gains nothing from this scene, from their own admission when you get the option to skip the mission it states that the storyline or achievements will not be affected. I think this is a moment where an industry that is already under a lot of scrutiny just "shot itself in the foot" with this move. Another note is that while this game is rated M-Mature, anyone who plays video games knows that children are playing these and you talk to them in the multiplayer matches. I'm not saying that it isn't the parents responsibility to watch what their children are playing but if scene wasn't put in the game, no one would have to worry about children performing a simulated terrorist act.
Actually, the mission was a crucial part of the story if you paid attention to the prior cutscene. IW wanted to make you see it from a terrorist's point of view, making it more engaging and intense. I, myself, didn't find it disturbing because you're just playing a game. It would be a different story if it was footage of a shooting from inside an airport terminal. I guess that's just me though.