360 or ps3?

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mach_kernel replied on 07-23-2009 1:47 PM

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I think I'll throw my two cents in.

I'm a professional computer programmer, and I have to say that frankly, the PS3 is a much more powerful system and is capable of twofold what Gran Turismo 5 is (in terms of achievements). Those who say that the PS3 is hard to program for are wrong, because it isn't that difficult. There are many libraries and components required to set the groundwork for any application, and though I'm not familiar with the API, it can't be harder than writing a large scale program for any operating system. Problem is that programmers are inexperienced when it comes to having to figure out things for themselves. For the 360, you can code programs in Visual Studio which has a very shiny help button and autocomplete feature. For the PS3 from what I've seen you need a regular run of the mill editor (I have some SDK files =D) like SciTE which are just like a word processor but they support code. No help button, nothing, you're out for your own.

Take this from a guy who's been at it for a long time. I just wish I could afford one of those SDK stations <_<

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cheeznrice replied on 07-23-2009 1:55 PM

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mach_kernel:

I'm a professional computer programmer

My BiL works for Red Hat in Toronto and a co-worker of his raves about his PS3.  Granted he's also a programmer and I believe he's running Linux on his PS3 as well, so he knows what he's doing.  I'm not sure if this lets him use the PS3 in more/different ways than someone like me, but it sure sounded like he did.

mach_kernel:

the PS3 is a much more powerful system

I don't think anyone can really argue that point successfully.  Exclusives and games programmed for the PS3 and ported to the 360 look amazing.

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Kenny007 replied on 07-23-2009 2:02 PM

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cheeznrice:

mach_kernel:

the PS3 is a much more powerful system

I don't think anyone can really argue that point successfully.  Exclusives and games programmed for the PS3 and ported to the 360 look amazing.

I'm pretty sure a hardware comparison would solidify his remark.  PS3 is quite powerful, and also had a year of extra dev time/tech advances to work with.

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cheeznrice replied on 07-23-2009 2:06 PM

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Kenny007:

cheeznrice:

mach_kernel:

the PS3 is a much more powerful system

I don't think anyone can really argue that point successfully.  Exclusives and games programmed for the PS3 and ported to the 360 look amazing.

I'm pretty sure a hardware comparison would solidify his remark.  PS3 is quite powerful, and also had a year of extra dev time/tech advances to work with.

It's only a matter of time before developers loosen the reins on the cell and unleash it on the masses.

*thumps chest twice with first then points to the sky*  That one's for you kevlar...

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Chambered replied on 07-23-2009 2:24 PM

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PS3 has just needed time for developers to learn how to use it and get good at it. I mean, look at the Gamecube. When it first came out, it wasn't that powerful, but towards the end of its life some developers had really gotten a good grip on it and we had great looking games like RE4.

I expect to see some really nice graphics improvements for both systems over time, but the PS3 really does seem to have more 'future proofing' built into it; that is, a little more hardware to work with. But we'll have to see where Microsoft is going with this Natal thing, I've heard rumors of a new type of 360, or something.

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cheeznrice replied on 07-23-2009 2:30 PM

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I don't disagree one bit with developers learning how to properly program for a console to get the most out of it.  I look back at some of the launch 360 titles and compare them to where they are now.  Even that is a huge difference.  I only used the 360 as an example as that is what I'm most familiar with.  Some of the Wii games I'm really looking forward to this fall/winter look quite impressive for Wii titles, which for the most part have under whelmed me graphically.  This is just limited to the Wii, a majority of the titles I'm looking forward too look sexy.  I'm a graphics whore.

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Kenny007 replied on 07-23-2009 2:34 PM

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I tried to get a cut and dry listing of the hardware between the two, but instead landed on a very tech heavy programmer written comparison between the two CPUs...which made my head spin.

I did gather that the 360 is easier to work with, but the PS3 has a lot more headroom, so I guess it depends on who's working with it to see what comes out.

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pugmagician replied on 07-23-2009 3:12 PM

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I again go with both because they both play games, and I like games YAY GAMES!!!

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Chambered replied on 07-23-2009 3:28 PM

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This seems to be a good comparison of the hardware specs.

http://www.romow.com/games-blog/sony-playstation-3-vs-microsoft-xbox-360-point-by-point-comparison/

Basically, the PS3 is harder to program for because you have to program for 7 CPUs, with the 360 it's only three.

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mach_kernel replied on 07-23-2009 6:03 PM

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Actually, the Cell Broadband Engine isn't its own ICU so it doesn't behave as 7 different processors but as cores.

Here's where [lazy] developers come at fault. They don't know how to split the processes for each core, and that is a very lengthy task. I'm sure Sony provides some kind of groundwork for this kind of like Apple's Grand Central, but you need to work with your software. Secondly, they aren't educated on how to program for a platform and just jump into it. Why do you think that all of Sony's in house software is better. Because they know the hardware, and because they took the time to study it if they didn't. Sony made it doesn't mean anything, because that doesn't mean that all the employees know how its done.

The ultimately sad part my friends is that these gaming companies have hundreds of people, large megateams working on these games and they cant get it. Of course you can't pay more and make them push more hours, but neither can you let them be a bunch of lazy morons all day. If I had a team of 50 people that actually know what computer programming is and a larger version of my basement with a fridge filled with soda and other kinds of nerd snacks, we'd be able to beat anything out. You need to love your job and learn not to be lazy.

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kevlar51 replied on 07-23-2009 6:24 PM

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mach_kernel:

Actually, the Cell Broadband Engine isn't its own ICU so it doesn't behave as 7 different processors but as cores.

Here's where [lazy] developers come at fault. They don't know how to split the processes for each core, and that is a very lengthy task. I'm sure Sony provides some kind of groundwork for this kind of like Apple's Grand Central, but you need to work with your software. Secondly, they aren't educated on how to program for a platform and just jump into it. Why do you think that all of Sony's in house software is better. Because they know the hardware, and because they took the time to study it if they didn't. Sony made it doesn't mean anything, because that doesn't mean that all the employees know how its done.

The ultimately sad part my friends is that these gaming companies have hundreds of people, large megateams working on these games and they cant get it. Of course you can't pay more and make them push more hours, but neither can you let them be a bunch of lazy morons all day. If I had a team of 50 people that actually know what computer programming is and a larger version of my basement with a fridge filled with soda and other kinds of nerd snacks, we'd be able to beat anything out. You need to love your job and learn not to be lazy.

It sounds like what you consider "lazy" is really "lack of knowledge." And to me, if something requires more knowledge to complete, then it's "harder." So to say the PS3 isn't harder to program games for than the 360 is kind of silly if doing so requires more knowledge.

It's like saying that giant boulder over there is just as easy to push as that pebble, so long as you are strong as shit.

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mach_kernel replied on 07-23-2009 8:12 PM

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That is a true flaw in my point, I give you that, but it is very easy to build the proverbail muscle it's just that people don't feel like it. And I think that's lazy.

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DrJ079 replied on 07-23-2009 9:02 PM

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kevlar51:

mach_kernel:

Actually, the Cell Broadband Engine isn't its own ICU so it doesn't behave as 7 different processors but as cores.

Here's where [lazy] developers come at fault. They don't know how to split the processes for each core, and that is a very lengthy task. I'm sure Sony provides some kind of groundwork for this kind of like Apple's Grand Central, but you need to work with your software. Secondly, they aren't educated on how to program for a platform and just jump into it. Why do you think that all of Sony's in house software is better. Because they know the hardware, and because they took the time to study it if they didn't. Sony made it doesn't mean anything, because that doesn't mean that all the employees know how its done.

The ultimately sad part my friends is that these gaming companies have hundreds of people, large megateams working on these games and they cant get it. Of course you can't pay more and make them push more hours, but neither can you let them be a bunch of lazy morons all day. If I had a team of 50 people that actually know what computer programming is and a larger version of my basement with a fridge filled with soda and other kinds of nerd snacks, we'd be able to beat anything out. You need to love your job and learn not to be lazy.

It sounds like what you consider "lazy" is really "lack of knowledge." And to me, if something requires more knowledge to complete, then it's "harder." So to say the PS3 isn't harder to program games for than the 360 is kind of silly if doing so requires more knowledge.

 

It's like saying that giant boulder over there is just as easy to push as that pebble, so long as you are strong as shit.

 

Not necessarily.   I'd say that it requires more knowledge to administer a Unix machine than a Windows machine because you don't have the nice GUI interface to do everything for you.   Once you have that knowledge, it's a lot easier to administer than a Windows machine because of its stability among other things.     In essence it's easier to push the smooth boulder rather than the misshapen smaller rock once you quit being intimidated by the boulder and learn the proper technique.   

It's possible for it to be easier to get the things you want out of the PS3, but for it to require more upfront knowledge to be able to.   Knowledge that isn't very plentiful yet because of how unique the hardware is in comparison to things of the past.

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nametaken replied on 07-23-2009 11:41 PM

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I only own a PS3, but I did consider buying a 360 instead. Ultimately it came down to exclusives and free online. I knew I was going to be building a gaming pc this summer (just started buying parts), and because most of the 360 exclusives I want to play are available on PC (Left 4 Dead, Mass Effect, Gears of War), I figured PS3 had it beat when it came to exclusives (at least for me... LBP and MGS4 were major factors too). When I factored in free online, Bluray, wireless, and the ability to replace the hard drive with any 2.5 inch drive, it was obvious that I should get a PS3.

I'm pretty happy with my PS3. I use it as a media center a lot. The ability to stream videos through the internet browser comes in really handy for me, and I also use to stream music from my PC quite a bit.

It seems I'm the opposite of most people, though. I use it mostly for playing games, but I've only watched a couple Blurays on it. I actually just bought my first (and only) Bluray yesterday, Watchmen director's cut =D .

cheeznrice:

Granted he's also a programmer and I believe he's running Linux on his PS3 as well, so he knows what he's doing.

You don't have to be a programmer to run Linux on a PS3. It's actually not difficult at all. I had it on mine for a while, but took it off because it really doesn't add anything (I already have a pc), and I'd rather use the HD space for other things.

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cheeznrice replied on 07-24-2009 8:04 AM

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nametaken:

You don't have to be a programmer to run Linux on a PS3. It's actually not difficult at all. I had it on mine for a while, but took it off because it really doesn't add anything (I already have a pc), and I'd rather use the HD space for other things.

I wasn't trying to imply that you have to be a programmer to run it on a PS3.  I was just trying to say I think he'd have more knowledge of how to properly operate it and maximize its use over say someone like me.  I have no clue if it adds any additional functions to the PS3, but I'd assume it does.  (btw, that's not directed at you )

nametaken:

most of the 360 exclusives I want to play are available on PC (Left 4 Dead, Mass Effect, Gears of War)

My suggestion, skip Gears.  Absolutely brutal game, but the co-op was amusing even if it was just I-Weapon-X and I committing suicide with the Hammer of Dawn.  If all 360 exclusives were that poorly written and had poor control mechanics I wouldn't own one.

There are a few RPG exclusives that I don't think are making there way to the PC, but I'm not sure.  One worth playing though, especially if you enjoy Final Fantasy games, is Lost Odyssey.