taintedzodiac: BKC72: Seeing as this point change is inevidable, regardless of what site users have to say here, has anyone gone beyond the how and why of it to ask about the when? To me, it would seem the gradual 50 points a week change (for the games that will change) would only further slow trading until this change finished. Would things be any better or any worse if this point change just took place overnight? People with games that are changing 50 points a week are going to sit on them until the points top out, but if the same game just went up 200 points overnight, than trading would resume that much quicker. That's what happened last time, and resulted in the forums being set on fire.
BKC72: Seeing as this point change is inevidable, regardless of what site users have to say here, has anyone gone beyond the how and why of it to ask about the when? To me, it would seem the gradual 50 points a week change (for the games that will change) would only further slow trading until this change finished. Would things be any better or any worse if this point change just took place overnight? People with games that are changing 50 points a week are going to sit on them until the points top out, but if the same game just went up 200 points overnight, than trading would resume that much quicker.
Seeing as this point change is inevidable, regardless of what site users have to say here, has anyone gone beyond the how and why of it to ask about the when? To me, it would seem the gradual 50 points a week change (for the games that will change) would only further slow trading until this change finished. Would things be any better or any worse if this point change just took place overnight? People with games that are changing 50 points a week are going to sit on them until the points top out, but if the same game just went up 200 points overnight, than trading would resume that much quicker.
That's what happened last time, and resulted in the forums being set on fire.
e-friction?
I-Weapon-X: taintedzodiac: BKC72: Seeing as this point change is inevidable, regardless of what site users have to say here, has anyone gone beyond the how and why of it to ask about the when? To me, it would seem the gradual 50 points a week change (for the games that will change) would only further slow trading until this change finished. Would things be any better or any worse if this point change just took place overnight? People with games that are changing 50 points a week are going to sit on them until the points top out, but if the same game just went up 200 points overnight, than trading would resume that much quicker. That's what happened last time, and resulted in the forums being set on fire. e-friction?
I see what you did there
Or maybe e-fission? I don't believe that e-cold fusion will ever be possible
<activates on hold request for FF VII>
Renaissance 2K: Part of me thinks other people do realize it. They just wish the conversion rate were that straight-forward since the point values generally experience price drops in stores faster than they do on here.Sure, that screws sellers over, but if you check the "Suggested Point Values" thread, there are 20 decrease requests for every increase request. And it's usually for a 50 or 100 point discrepency.
KVin189: *talking about how Blackcoyote has not posted in this thread since Post Numero Uno*
I think the key points here are:
1. The algorithm will be your friend or enemy (depending on how things go), not the point cap increase.
2. Not all 1000-point games will rise 200 points on May 21st.
3. Not all new-release games will start out at 1200 points.
4. If you had 10,000 points before the cap increase, you still have 10,000 points after the cap increase.
5. If you think that after May 21st your 10,000 points will only get you 8 of the highest point games and one 400-point game, where before May 21st, you can get 10 of the highest point games, that is incorrect. You can still get those same 10 games, you just have to wait until they drop from 1200 points to 1000 points. So then you might say that increases buyer wait times. That is not necessarily correct either. Why? Because there will be more sellers who are willing to send out their 1200-point games... and then once all of the buyers are gone who are willing to spend 1200 points on Game X, the point value should eventually go down to 1000 points (or less). So for high-demand games (e.g. new releases); wait times should actually be decreased overall because those sellers who felt they should get more for that game, will have... and then other sellers who haven't traded out their copy yet see that it has dropped down to 1000 points (or less), can be confident that that is actually what the game is worth now (instead of not knowing because of the cap being at 1000 points) and then send it out to those people who want to spend no more than 1000 points (or less) on Game X, before it drops even more in point value. The only exception is if you just so happen (by rare chance) to be requesting 10 of those very, very few games (if any will exist at all) that will forever stay at 1200 points since release. Well, those are games that SHOULD be 1200 points (or more) then (see my very last sentence at the end of this post). So this basically relates back to "key point #1", the ALGORITHM! Let's hope it gets improved like they say it will be.
As naytk said, good plans can fail, so hopefully people realize that this is actually a good thing and make it successful.
I think one last thing I want to say (in this comment) is: Instead of complaining, people who are upset about the cap increase should be thankful they have had the opportunity to purchase 1200-point valued games for 1000 points from generous sellers for this long when the cap should have been at 1200 points (or more) a long time ago.
Edit: I just sent out a 1000 point game (FFVII) to someone… but mainly because it wasn't in super-great condition (even though it still works)... I'd feel bad sending it out for 1200 points! Plus it's killmak and he's a pretty cool guy, so I figured I'd send it out now!
dtp11: So what are 100 Goozex points worth then? If not $5.00 USD, then nothing ($0.00)? Or does it depend on how much actual money you have spent on the games you've sent out? Or is the value based on the amount of money the games you receive are worth, and then varies accordingly due to price drops/increases... or is it the previous two options combined? And what determines a game's ACTUAL worth? It can't be based on eBay, or EB Games prices… so then what is it based on? And what about people who exclusively buy points? Can anyone actually determine the real value of a Goozex point? If not, then can we accurately gauge the supposed devaluation of people's points due to this cap increase?
So what are 100 Goozex points worth then? If not $5.00 USD, then nothing ($0.00)? Or does it depend on how much actual money you have spent on the games you've sent out? Or is the value based on the amount of money the games you receive are worth, and then varies accordingly due to price drops/increases... or is it the previous two options combined? And what determines a game's ACTUAL worth? It can't be based on eBay, or EB Games prices… so then what is it based on? And what about people who exclusively buy points? Can anyone actually determine the real value of a Goozex point? If not, then can we accurately gauge the supposed devaluation of people's points due to this cap increase?
100 Goozex points equal no money because you can't cash them out. They are worth no set amount because Goozex is a closed system and doesn't sell their goods, they are rather a mediator.
I agree with the rest of uour post though. 10,000 points=10,000 points anyway you cut. One hot new release=one hot new release.
dtp11: 1. The algorithm will be your friend or enemy (depending on how things go), not the point cap increase. This is very much the case here. But from the looks of the current algorithm there is nowhere to go but up. 2. Not all 1000-point games will rise 200 points on May 21st. This may or may not be the case. As blackcoyote said, it all depends on what the algorithm deems necessary. It could be none, it could be all. You can't say that for sure. 3. Not all new-release games will start out at 1200 points. Blackcoyote's first post here contradicts that statement. I believe it was "Seller's don't feel they are getting enough value from their new game released 2 weeks ago." or something along those lines. I'm seeing that as a crystal clear indication that new release games are going to start out there. Although I don't believe blackcoyote hqas confirmed or denied this, so it would be nice to hear from him. 4. If you had 10,000 points before the cap increase, you still have 10,000 points after the cap increase. I see no point in this one. 5. If you think that after May 21st your 10,000 points will only get you 8 of the highest point games and one 400-point game, where before May 21st, you can get 10 of the highest point games, that is incorrect. You can still get those same 10 games, you just have to wait until they drop from 1200 points to 1000 points. So then you might say that increases buyer wait times. That is not necessarily correct either. Why? Because there will be more sellers who are willing to send out their 1200-point games... and then once all of the buyers are gone who are willing to spend 1200 points on Game X, the point value should eventually go down to 1000 points (or less). So for high-demand games (e.g. new releases); wait times should actually be decreased overall because those sellers who felt they should get more for that game, will have... and then other sellers who haven't traded out their copy yet see that it has dropped down to 1000 points (or less), can be confident that that is actually what the game is worth now (instead of not knowing because of the cap being at 1000 points) and then send it out to those people who want to spend no more than 1000 points (or less) on Game X, before it drops even more in point value. The only exception is if you just so happen (by rare chance) to be requesting 10 of those very, very few games (if any will exist at all) that will forever stay at 1200 points since release. Well, those are games that SHOULD be 1200 points (or more) then (see my very last sentence at the end of this post). So this basically relates back to "key point #1", the ALGORITHM! Let's hope it gets improved like they say it will be. Also not a good point. New release games are traded, just not as quickly, as people are still playing them. The 100+ people with "on hold" status aren't just waiting for a price increase.... My experience has been that the day you become first in line, you get matched. This may not be the case int he first month or so, but no one expects to get a new release game on here that quick. Also, what if buyers don't want to pay 1200 points? Then it takes a month to drop in price and then there is absolutely no difference between what is now and what will be then. I think one last thing I want to say (in this comment) is: Instead of complaining, people who are upset about the cap increase should be thankful they have had the opportunity to purchase 1200-point valued games for 1000 points from generous sellers for this long when the cap should have been at 1200 points (or more) a long time ago. Could you PLEASE explain to me what the difference will be if a 1000 point game, that was selling for top dollar, turns into a 1200 point game that is selling for top dollar? The seller can still only get 1 top dollar game. It makes no sense to me.
This is very much the case here. But from the looks of the current algorithm there is nowhere to go but up.
This may or may not be the case. As blackcoyote said, it all depends on what the algorithm deems necessary. It could be none, it could be all. You can't say that for sure.
Blackcoyote's first post here contradicts that statement. I believe it was "Seller's don't feel they are getting enough value from their new game released 2 weeks ago." or something along those lines. I'm seeing that as a crystal clear indication that new release games are going to start out there. Although I don't believe blackcoyote hqas confirmed or denied this, so it would be nice to hear from him.
I see no point in this one.
Also not a good point. New release games are traded, just not as quickly, as people are still playing them. The 100+ people with "on hold" status aren't just waiting for a price increase.... My experience has been that the day you become first in line, you get matched. This may not be the case int he first month or so, but no one expects to get a new release game on here that quick.
Also, what if buyers don't want to pay 1200 points? Then it takes a month to drop in price and then there is absolutely no difference between what is now and what will be then.
Could you PLEASE explain to me what the difference will be if a 1000 point game, that was selling for top dollar, turns into a 1200 point game that is selling for top dollar? The seller can still only get 1 top dollar game. It makes no sense to me.
Also you asked what the value of goozex points is if it isnt $5=100 points. The simple fact is that it varies based on the game. From the current price of Skate 2 on ebay, it comes out to about $3=100 points in that case. Points CANNOT be translated to a form of currency. It just doesnt work because of the differing value of games. Of course, IMO NO game is worth $60 new or used(except if it comes with peripherals, eg. guitar hero, rockband, etc.).
Proud Winner of 1 of 4 GamesRadar limited edition PSP Slim Daxter Entertainment Pack.
Since I was last here, this thread took a turn for the better.
Nice post there dtp, summed up everything I wanted to say (without attacking anyone).
I just hope only the games that truly are worth more than 1000 points actually go above 1000 ... and there are some. I hope you guys thought your new algorithm through.
ribbed.us
What happens if the raise to 1200 doesn't achieve the desired result? Will the cap be raised to 1400 next year, and 1600 the year after?
DrJ079:What happens if the raise to 1200 doesn't achieve the desired result? Will the cap be raised to 1400 next year, and 1600 the year after?
Yes ... and eventually ... ONE MILLION POINTS!
-- Mike
Catch my stuff at GearDiary,com!
Kameleon: Nice post there dtp, summed up everything I wanted to say (without attacking anyone).
dafitzanator777: I agree with the rest of uour post though. 10,000 points=10,000 points anyway you cut. One hot new release=one hot new release.
VICVANCE2011:"1. The algorithm will be your friend or enemy (depending on how things go), not the point cap increase."This is very much the case here...
VICVANCE2011:Also you asked what the value of goozex points is if it isnt $5=100 points. The simple fact is that it varies based on the game. From the current price of Skate 2 on ebay, it comes out to about $3=100 points in that case. Points CANNOT be translated to a form of currency. It just doesnt work because of the differing value of games. Of course, IMO NO game is worth $60 new or used(except if it comes with peripherals, eg. guitar hero, rockband, etc.).
VICVANCE2011:"2. Not all 1000-point games will rise 200 points on May 21st."This may or may not be the case. As blackcoyote said, it all depends on what the algorithm deems necessary. It could be none, it could be all. You can't say that for sure.
VICVANCE2011:"3. Not all new-release games will start out at 1200 points."Blackcoyote's first post here contradicts that statement. I believe it was "Seller's don't feel they are getting enough value from their new game released 2 weeks ago." or something along those lines. I'm seeing that as a crystal clear indication that new release games are going to start out there. Although I don't believe blackcoyote hqas confirmed or denied this, so it would be nice to hear from him.
Blackcoyote:1. not all new releases or games will jump to 1,200. If the new game is valued at say $55 used (like at a lot used retail stores) then the price will be 1,100. 2. Not all games will jump in value (i.e. true inflation). Only games affected by the algorithm will change. So if the game today is worth 1,000 points and our algorithm computes it should actually be 1,100 points then it will adjust.I remember last time we ran this only something like 50 games were affected and of those only about 20 went to the 1,200 mark.
VICVANCE2011:"4. If you had 10,000 points before the cap increase, you still have 10,000 points after the cap increase."I see no point in this one.
VICVANCE2011:"5. If you think that after May 21st your 10,000 points will only get you 8 of the highest point games and one 400-point game, where before May 21st, you can get 10 of the highest point games, that is incorrect. You can still get those same 10 games, you just have to wait until they drop from 1200 points to 1000 points. So then you might say that increases buyer wait times. That is not necessarily correct either. Why? Because there will be more sellers who are willing to send out their 1200-point games... and then once all of the buyers are gone who are willing to spend 1200 points on Game X, the point value should eventually go down to 1000 points (or less). So for high-demand games (e.g. new releases); wait times should actually be decreased overall because those sellers who felt they should get more for that game, will have... and then other sellers who haven't traded out their copy yet see that it has dropped down to 1000 points (or less), can be confident that that is actually what the game is worth now (instead of not knowing because of the cap being at 1000 points) and then send it out to those people who want to spend no more than 1000 points (or less) on Game X, before it drops even more in point value. The only exception is if you just so happen (by rare chance) to be requesting 10 of those very, very few games (if any will exist at all) that will forever stay at 1200 points since release. Well, those are games that SHOULD be 1200 points (or more) then (see my very last sentence at the end of this post). So this basically relates back to "key point #1", the ALGORITHM! Let's hope it gets improved like they say it will be."Also not a good point. New release games are traded, just not as quickly, as people are still playing them. The 100+ people with "on hold" status aren't just waiting for a price increase.... My experience has been that the day you become first in line, you get matched. This may not be the case int he first month or so, but no one expects to get a new release game on here that quick. Also, what if buyers don't want to pay 1200 points? Then it takes a month to drop in price and then there is absolutely no difference between what is now and what will be then.
As for your "what if buyers don't want to pay 1200 points"... WHAT IF?! We already know that there are at LEAST 50 or more users that are willing to pay more than 1600 points for a new copy of a new release game… so why is it a bad assumption to think buyers would pay 1200 points for an opened copy of a new release game? Even if every single buyer waited until a new release game dropped down to 1000 points because they didn't want to pay 1200 points, that's fine… that just means the peripheral/bundled, CE/LE, and rare games will be the games going up to 1200 points, which is what some people would prefer anyway! And that also means that that new release game just wasn't worth 1200 points.
VICVANCE2011:"I think one last thing I want to say (in this comment) is: Instead of complaining, people who are upset about the cap increase should be thankful they have had the opportunity to purchase 1200-point valued games for 1000 points from generous sellers for this long when the cap should have been at 1200 points (or more) a long time ago."Could you PLEASE explain to me what the difference will be if a 1000 point game, that was selling for top dollar, turns into a 1200 point game that is selling for top dollar? The seller can still only get 1 top dollar game. It makes no sense to me.
Just stopping in to say I'm for the change.
dtp11: Yes, I CAN say that for sure. Re-read what I said. I think you may have though I said "after" instead of "on" May 21st. Even if I did say after, I will personally guarantee you that not all 1000-point games will go up to 1200 points. If they do by some miracle, a free 5 trade token gift card for you.
Yes, I CAN say that for sure. Re-read what I said. I think you may have though I said "after" instead of "on" May 21st. Even if I did say after, I will personally guarantee you that not all 1000-point games will go up to 1200 points. If they do by some miracle, a free 5 trade token gift card for you.
You missed the entire point of my post. I was simply saying that you cannot say this for sure, because YOU didn't develop the algorithm. I'm not saying it will happen. Though with the 5 trade token gift card on the table, I can only hope.
dtp11:He HAS clarified this. So no, it does NOT contradict that statement. Here is what he said: Blackcoyote:1. not all new releases or games will jump to 1,200. If the new game is valued at say $55 used (like at a lot used retail stores) then the price will be 1,100. 2. Not all games will jump in value (i.e. true inflation). Only games affected by the algorithm will change. So if the game today is worth 1,000 points and our algorithm computes it should actually be 1,100 points then it will adjust.I remember last time we ran this only something like 50 games were affected and of those only about 20 went to the 1,200 mark.
Again you missed my point. I'm not talking about games that have already been released. I'm talking about future releases. Which it seems pretty clear in Blackcoyote's post right there, that they WILL start out higher.
VICVANCE2011:You missed the entire point of my post. I was simply saying that you cannot say this for sure, because YOU didn't develop the algorithm. I'm not saying it will happen. Though with the 5 trade token gift card on the table, I can only hope.
VICVANCE2011:Again you missed my point. I'm not talking about games that have already been released. I'm talking about future releases. Which it seems pretty clear in Blackcoyote's post right there, that they WILL start out higher.
dtp11: ]No, I did NOT miss it! Wow. Okay, since the algorithm only adjusts games by 50 points weekly, how can all 1000-point games go up to 1200 points on May 21st?! That's what I thought. Oh wait let me guess: "what if Goozex miraculously decides to change their mind on May 21st and change the algorithm to make all 1000-point games 1200 points"?! Then you're right I can't say for sure… but then what if Goozex decides to go out of business tomorrow, then we'll never know! Do you see what I'm getting at here? Do you remember what happened about a week ago? 3 point change emails in a couple of hours. Do you think that couldn't happen again? I was simply saying that you can't say for sure that all the games wont shoot up to 1200 points on May 21st. Oh my… again, I did NOT miss your point. You missed mine (AGAIN)! I WAS talking about new release games in "key point #3"! That's what I said: "Not all NEW-RELEASE games will start out at 1200 points." Now you're changing your words and backtracking! haha! You said: "I'm seeing that as a crystal clear indication that new release games are going to start out there" …"there" meaning 1200 points… now you're changing it and saying that they will start out "higher". So which is it? Higher, or at 1200? You're saying "higher now"… however, my point was saying that they won't all start out at 1200! How can Blackcoyote saying that they all WONT start out at 1200 points be a crystal clear indication that they WILL start out at 1200 points? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Where does he say that a game won't start out at 1200 points the day it's released? I think him saying that seller's wanting more value for their new-release game is basically saying that this is going to be the starting point. And I will gladly point this out to you when it happens, if you would like. And when i said higher, I meant 1200 points. Don't try to twist what i say when you know darn well what it means. And it's not going to be ALL new release games. But I think we can all use basic reasoning skills that we learned in kindergarten, to realize that any decent game on the 360 or ps3 IS going to be released at 1200 points. THAT is my point.
]No, I did NOT miss it! Wow. Okay, since the algorithm only adjusts games by 50 points weekly, how can all 1000-point games go up to 1200 points on May 21st?! That's what I thought. Oh wait let me guess: "what if Goozex miraculously decides to change their mind on May 21st and change the algorithm to make all 1000-point games 1200 points"?! Then you're right I can't say for sure… but then what if Goozex decides to go out of business tomorrow, then we'll never know! Do you see what I'm getting at here?
Do you remember what happened about a week ago? 3 point change emails in a couple of hours. Do you think that couldn't happen again? I was simply saying that you can't say for sure that all the games wont shoot up to 1200 points on May 21st.
Oh my… again, I did NOT miss your point. You missed mine (AGAIN)! I WAS talking about new release games in "key point #3"! That's what I said: "Not all NEW-RELEASE games will start out at 1200 points." Now you're changing your words and backtracking! haha! You said: "I'm seeing that as a crystal clear indication that new release games are going to start out there" …"there" meaning 1200 points… now you're changing it and saying that they will start out "higher". So which is it? Higher, or at 1200? You're saying "higher now"… however, my point was saying that they won't all start out at 1200! How can Blackcoyote saying that they all WONT start out at 1200 points be a crystal clear indication that they WILL start out at 1200 points? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?
Where does he say that a game won't start out at 1200 points the day it's released? I think him saying that seller's wanting more value for their new-release game is basically saying that this is going to be the starting point. And I will gladly point this out to you when it happens, if you would like. And when i said higher, I meant 1200 points. Don't try to twist what i say when you know darn well what it means. And it's not going to be ALL new release games. But I think we can all use basic reasoning skills that we learned in kindergarten, to realize that any decent game on the 360 or ps3 IS going to be released at 1200 points. THAT is my point.
Games that are already released may or may not hit 1200, but that's irrelevant. I'm talking about games that will be released in the future.