Copied and pasted from the actual thread about this subject:
This is why it's more complicated then it may first seem in the surface. It is a tiered structure. When the system makes matches it can match higher in the tier but not lower. For instance, just for the sake of this example, let's say I am requesting a game as game+manual. My turn comes up. If the next offer in line is for game+manual or full package the system can make a match because all requirements are met. However it cannot move down a tier to disk only. The problem is we all have different opinions as to where in that tier structure a game+case should fall. Spot # 2 or 3. I believe all our opinions are valid on this matter but the fact that they differ so much is what really complicates things...
Here's the disk+case option thread:
http://www.goozex.com/community/forums/t/38711.aspx?PageIndex=1
Maskim....2 things
1. you know as well as I do that disc+case means disc plus original case and cover art. no one means just any case will do
2. if we're going to go with the saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", then OP would have no right to leave negative in this situation and sending a "full package" without a manual would never constitute negative feedback now or in the future
1. Yes, you are correct on this. That's why I put a , because it was a mirthful statement, not a serious one.
2. Sending anything less than what you agreed to should be a negative. Period. It's not really up for debate, although you can if you like, as it's fairly well known that lying and misrepresentation are considered wrong. The fact that I can wait in line 3x as long to finally get a full package, and the other user can pawn something without the manual off on me, and they receive no punishment is an issue that is broken, and thus should be fixed. (-10 is no punishment at all. They still get paid in full, they just lose 10 feedback points, which as soon as you've traded out 5 games with good feedback, is fairly meaningless)
If they figure out a way to implement a disc + case option that would not bog down the current matching system and was mutually exclusive from disc + manual (as I stated earlier, I value the manual more than the case, so if disc+case is placed above disc + manual, I wouldn't want to be stuck without a manual because it matched with a case seller instead) then I would be in support of it.
As it stands though, the system works fine in this regard, and doesn't need to be repaired. Can it be improved? Probably, but you shouldn't add an option at the detriment to the system as a whole.
Maskim:I know the people arguing for a fourth option have the best intentions, and are only trying to make the site better, but two sayings come to mind, regarding the subject. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
dustin25ship:except it's not disc only. it's disc+case. disc+manual gets its own listing and you wouldn't consider that disc only would you? no you wouldn't. so by the same token, disc+case should have its own listing.
dustin25ship:it's not really rocket science here. some people, myself included, have the opinion that there should be a fourth shipping option. chances are, a fourth option won't be added, because people seem to be a little stubborn and discount the idea just because they feel like it. they think disc+manual is fine, but disc+case should be listed as disc only without any logical rationale. bottom line is, it's just an opinion that some users have, whether you agree or not, we're still entitled to our opinion.
Maskim: ReLiAnZe: I really don't know why you guys are saying it would be so difficult to keep up with another option. Nearly doubling the match possibilities is liable to bog down the system when it's trying to do matrix matches.
ReLiAnZe: I really don't know why you guys are saying it would be so difficult to keep up with another option.
I really don't know why you guys are saying it would be so difficult to keep up with another option.
Nearly doubling the match possibilities is liable to bog down the system when it's trying to do matrix matches.
Maskim:Also, where exactly would you put disc + case in the list?
I suppose I was off concerning myself with things that mattered to me.
In any event, if they're able to do it in a manner that will be of benefit to the community, they will. Until they do, the site and trading system work fine as they are. Until such a time as there is a disc + case option specifically, people simply need to make due with what we have, and list their games properly.
Maskim:I suppose I was off concerning myself with things that mattered to me.
Maskim:In any event, if they're able to do it in a manner that will be of benefit to the community, they will. Until they do, the site and trading system work fine as they are. Until such a time as there is a disc + case option specifically, people simply need to make due with what we have, and list their games properly.
I'm still with the negative on this one, to get the ball rolling.
Truth be told, I currently am waiting for the sellers reply on an identical sitution of my own, and am considering leaving negative myself, to put my money where my mouth is to say the least.
And +1 to pretty much everything Maskim said, including the reason why I haven't been bothering with the D+C thread as much. Irrelevant to me and most others that just ask for FP to begin with.
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GreenManGaming
and what would your justification be for leaving negative? obviously you know how the system works but since you don't agree you'll just do whatever you want, knowing that it will be overturned if the person fights it? you say the disc+case option is irrelevant to you and most others that ask for FP, however I'm sure that a lot of people would ask for D+C instead of FP. I think the poll somewhat shows that.
dustin25ship:you say the disc+case option is irrelevant to you
I'd argue it isn't and for the sole reason that people can't seem to grasp that it qualifies as Disc Only and not Full Package. So they dump their crap on others who expect Full Package.
dustin25ship:however I'm sure that a lot of people would ask for D+C instead of FP. I think the poll somewhat shows that.
I really don't think it would change too much. I think the Disc Only crowd would see more of a change.
As for the poll, my stats are a little rusty, but I don't think 277 people is a sufficient sample size given Goozex's user base. So wouldn't that make the results of the poll statistically insignificant? Where's txa when you need him?
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dustin25ship: and what would your justification be for leaving negative? obviously you know how the system works but since you don't agree you'll just do whatever you want, knowing that it will be overturned if the person fights it? you say the disc+case option is irrelevant to you and most others that ask for FP, however I'm sure that a lot of people would ask for D+C instead of FP. I think the poll somewhat shows that.
Indeed, I understand how it works, quite well for a still rather green member, and in it I can see flaws that I don't believe I'm alone on. I don't support a whole lot of change on Goozex, as for the most part, it seems they've gotten a whole lot right on their first few passes, but this is something that has to go.
You want my justification? It's an incorrect game. I asked for a FP package version of game X, and received DO condition instead. Two different games in my mind; there's a reason they are stated and seperated. Game FP is the full package, what I'm willing to wait for, what I'm paying for in points, completely stocked in the eyes of the resale/trade community, and thus is far more valuable to me than it's DO cousin. Further still, merely accepting the incorrect listing allows a few things to happen that shouldn't. First, the seller pitched a game into the system that most likely wouldn't have moved as fast if listed honestly, blatantly ripping me off, not to mention the other honest listers. Second, the game is now in my hands unlikely to move, which kills its retrade value as an incomplete title that I would properly list. Lastly, if this conduct is just accepted, the community as a whole suffers, as this is currently a much overlooked problem. I'm sure your tone will change when you recieve a game you're pumped to get in FP only to find it was sent to you in a paper CD sleeve...is it still worth your points now when the next guy in line, paying the same amount of points as you, gets the FP as intended and requested?
It may be overturned, it may not. All it may do is get the G-Team thinking. If that's all we achieve from leaving a negative, I'll consider it a step in the right direction.
As far as the D+C option, there's no denying that FP is the most common and most sought after condition type. The majority of requests wouldn't notice or care, as it's still below FP regardless of where you put it in the matrix, and would likely only shift people from requesting DO to DC, because really, who wants JUST the disc when the chance of at least getting the case is out there?
I forgot about this thread. I started getting spammed with messages about this thread again and found out there's a nice little discussion going.
Negative feedback was left for this and I got my points back. I know some of you say I should have left neutral. I believe neutral feedback is meant for things like a manual being in bad shape, or a case having some dings. To completely forget an item that was supposed to be a full package is negative feedback for me.
As I said, I left negative feedback and just checked up on it to see if it was changed to neutral by a mod and it wasn't.
I'm The Dan: I forgot about this thread. I started getting spammed with messages about this thread again and found out there's a nice little discussion going. Negative feedback was left for this and I got my points back. I know some of you say I should have left neutral. I believe neutral feedback is meant for things like a manual being in bad shape, or a case having some dings. To completely forget an item that was supposed to be a full package is negative feedback for me. As I said, I left negative feedback and just checked up on it to see if it was changed to neutral by a mod and it wasn't.
Please sir, accept my virtual high 5.
*insert aforementioned High Five here*
I disagree with multiple things said above
1. OP should not feel justified by leaving a negative. The only reason it didn't get overturned is because the buyer probably didnt' fight it. Whether or not it deserves negative feedback is not the issue. The issue is that this is not the way the system is currently set up. Maybe it should be changed to negative and I don't disagree with that, but it currently isn't. You can't just do something because you feel like it. Breaking the rules of the way the system is set up by leaving negative is the same as the seller breaking a rule and sending less than FP. A rule is a rule and on this site we should abide by them until they are changed. People encouraging this negative feedback aren't really helping the situation as now more people may read this and feel it is acceptable to do whatever they want because they THINK the system should be different.
2. Cheez states that by creating a D+C it would really only effect the DO crowd. I myself currently almost always request FP. This is because I want the disc and I want the case. I believe I would request D+C instead of FP in many instances if that were an option. I'm sure I'm not alone here, I just might be the most vocal about it in this thread. However, I do agree with the people saying that the D+C option might be hard to place on the matrix. Should it go above D+M or below it? That would take some debate which I don't want to get into here.
Bottom line is, we should follow the rules of the site and bring it up to the Gooz team if we want it changed. Until it is we shouldn't just do whatever we want because we think we're entitled to.
If the good users here won't stand up against this abuse, who will? Something must be done, lest everyone just send incomplete listings without a second thought, nor a care in the world.
I'm glad the OP made out alright, it was well deserved.
Just for the record, I'd like to reiterate that I haven't left anything yet, as I'm giving my case a few days to contact me back about possible remedies. If it was a mistake they're willing to work with me to correct, I'm all for that option. A waste of my time maybe, but I'm still relatively young so I've got some to spare, so I can overlook it, and would prefer a mutually happy outcome.
Send me crap and bail on me though, and it's time for angry smiley face. -->
Too many things to reply to, so I won't!A few things I will say though:Cheez, if the polls are not significant, then why does the G-Team use them? I think 200+ people is at least good enough to give a fair idea of what people think.I don't agree with Kenny007's view of leaving negative for a missing manual as a way to get the G-Team thinking, as that is feedback abuse and I'm not sure why more people haven't jumped on that. I think a simple email with a link to this thread will do.I would request the majority of my games as Disc + Case if it were and option and I think MANY other people would too.